Showing posts with label Jake Crosby. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jake Crosby. Show all posts

January 20, 2012

Offit Teaches Physicians How to Talk To The Public About Vaccines: Contemptuously Lecture, Stonewall, Bully and Throw Them Out

Reading Jake Crosby's piece today on being thrown out of yet another Paul Offit speech, I am struck by the ironic pattern in these speaking engagements.  

Paul Offit (and Seth Mnookin) have been holding events at prestigious institutions to tell medical professionals and academics how to handle the public on the vaccine controversy.  Yet I think that it is completely lost on them that they are not just giving a speech on how to handle people who question the current vaccine program, they are actually holding a lab, will full scale demonstrations, on how to handle people who question the current vaccine program.

Because people don't really pay as much attention to what you say as they do to what you do.  (Ask any parent trying to teach a child NOT to do something that they do themselves.  "Don't smoke kids.  Now pass mommy her cigarettes.")  And what Offit and Mnookin have done, is offer a bunch of words that will likely have little impact, but then actually demonstrate how to treat doubters of their message, which has a huge impact.


So here is the take away that event goers are getting when attending an Offit/Mnookin event:

1.  Offit gives a lecture at NIH entitled “Communicating Vaccine Safety Science to the Public,” says a bunch of words, then demonstrates how to communicate "vaccine safety science" to someone who is a steakholder in the issue (Jake Crosby, who may be vaccine injured) by falsely accusing him of being a stalker, by not letting him ask a question (although he is behaving completely appropriately) and by throwing him off the premises. 

Take away:  To communicate with the public, talk AT them.  If they have questions that you don't want to answer, make them your adversary and have them removed from the property.


It is OK, and even preferable, to demonize vaccine safety skeptics, and treat them very poorly. 


Bully them.



2.  Offit gives a lecture at Yale entitled “Hard Knocks: Communicating Science to the Public,” says a bunch of words, then demonstrates how to communicate "science" to someone who is a steakholder in the issue (Jake Crosby, who may be vaccine injured) by falsely accusing him of being a stalker, by yelling at him, by not letting him ask a question (although he is behaving completely appropriately) and by throwing him off the premises.

Take away:  To communicate with the public, talk AT them.  If they have questions that you don't want to answer, make them your adversary and have them removed from the property.  Offit has also inferring that the "Hard Knocks" do not refer to the medical professional being "knocked" when trying to talk to communicate to the public, but actually to the vaccine safety skeptic who was actually "knocked" trying to communicate with the medical professional.  "When engaging the public, it is OK to give them 'hard knocks'."

It is OK, and even preferable, to demonize vaccine safety skeptics, and treat them very poorly. 

Bully them.


3.  Mnookin gives a lecture at  American University's School of Communication entitled  "How to Communicate with Anti-Vaccine Parents," says a bunch of words, then demonstrates how to communicate "science" to someone who wants to make their own vaccine decisions, by telling the audience that you are offended and repulsed by such parents, and that you think they are "Total Assholes."




Take away:  To communicate with the public, hold them in contempt.  Even when they are parents earnestly working in the best interests of their vulnerable children.

It is OK, and even preferable, to demonize vaccine skeptics, even as you admit that vaccines may not even work for their child.

Bully them.


4.  Mnookin appears at the  Public Responsibility in Medicine and Research” event,  says a bunch of words, then demonstrates public responsibility in vaccine discussion by falsely accusing a stakeholder in the issue (Jake Crosby, who may be vaccine injured) of being disruptive at events, by not letting him ask a question (although he is behaving completely appropriately) and by throwing him off the premises .

Take away:  It is responsible, when dealing with vaccine safety skeptics, to talk AT them while only allowing them to sit quietly and listen.  If they have questions that you don't want to answer, make them your adversary and have them removed from the property.

It is OK, and even preferable, to demonize vaccine safety skeptics, and treat them very poorly.

Bully them.


Do you see the pattern here?

Mnookin and Offit ARE teaching the medical world how to treat those who have questions about vaccine safety.  They are to be treated very poorly.  They are to be held in contempt and bullied.  They are to be removed from the premises.

But of course the problem for medical professionals in taking this advice, is that when they try it in their offices, they loose the argument, the loose the patient, and they loose their reputation in the community.  Taking Offit's advice is akin to shooting oneself in the foot for anyone whose job actually requires them to have a conversation with a member of the public.

And the Offiteers have lost at least A QUARTER of the public to the conclusion that vaccinating according to CDC recommendations is a greater risk to their child than adhering to their recommendations.

So I will echo Mary Holland's most salient question to Paul Offit in this last exchange:
"Would you be willing to engage in a public debate about the vaccine issue?”
And we see that the answer is, and always will be, the one that Offit gives:
“There is no need to debate the science; the science is in.”
Their answer is "No."  


So as Offit (who has become the Bagdad Bob of vaccination) and friends lock the doors to the ivory tower from the inside, to protect themselves from vicious graduate students in epidemiology at that hotbed of anti-science anarchy, George Washington University; but what they don't seem to have noticed is that all they have done is locked themselves in a broom closet, away from the real vaccine discussion that matters.  Their tiny mutual admiration society is having little impact in the direction of vaccine uptake rates, because they are not engaging with the vaccine decision makers.  You know... their customers.  The discussions that are changing vaccine uptake are happening at coffee tables, at bus stops and over back fences.  

I have them on a weekly basis, I don't accuse people who question me of being disruptive or being stalkers, I don't treat them with contempt, i don't call them "Total Assholes," I don't shout them down when they try to ask questions, I don't throw them off the premises and I DO engage them for as long as they want to talk about the issue.

I can show a mother that the claim that "The science is in and vaccines don't cause autism" (and apparently now encephalopathy) is a complete load of horse shit in 2 minutes on my cell phone from our health officials own words documents and web sites.  Not only is Offit not there to defend his stupid claim, local pediatricians are completely ill equipped to win back moms who have been educated at the coffee table, because the only thing they have been taught to do with these moms are:


1. Hold them in contempt.

2. Talk AT them.

3. Don't allow them to ask questions.

4. If they challenge your stance, throw them out.

And then of course, the next time they are at coffee, it's all, "OMG... you were totally right.  They don't know anything about vaccine injury!  He couldn't answer the questions and just tried to bully me!  What is the name of your pediatrician who is cool with your vaccine choices?"

So by all means, keep it up you two... keep it up.  Nothing proves my points more to all the women I talk to than the way you behave.

December 27, 2011

Offit/Crosby

So strange.

Jake Crosby has been dissecting autism research, writing about vaccine injury and exposing corruption and conflicts of interests in vaccine apologists for what, four years now?  And suddenly, in the course of three weeks, he has been branded so dangerous that he must be physically removed from not one, but two separate lectures by vaccine industry defenders... after merely asking a legitimate questions, both about Andrew Wakefield?

First Seth Mnookin said he was a heckler, but now wont answer questions or offer details about said heckling.  Now Paul Offit has upped the ante and announced that Jake was his stalker.

So as with Mnookin, I have written to Dr. Offit and asked him for details of Jake's problematic behavior.  You may recognize much of the letter, as I merely modified the letter I sent to Mnookin a few weeks ago, as this is practically the identical scenario that happened a few weeks ago.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Jake Crosby
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:40:00 -0500
From: Ginger Taylor
To: Paul Offit


Dr. Offit,

I read Jake Crosby's story on being ejected from your most recent event after asking a question during the question and answer period.

From his telling of the story, what you did seems to me be very heavy handed and inappropriate at the least, and some pretty ugly censorship and slander on your part at most.

As you have been untruthful about offenses that were never committed by your opponents in the past, (I reference JB Handley's successful libel lawsuit against you and the Orange County Register's retraction of your charges against a CBS reporter when you were unable to back them up), I tend to believe Jake's story on its face, but I want to allow for the fact that Jake did not report the incident accurately, thus my reason for contacting you with a few questions.

1.  Did he accurately report the incident, and that he has only been in contact with you once before, two years ago, via email?

2.  If so, do you not believe that an apology to him is in order?

3.  If he did not report the incident accurately, what did he get wrong?

4.  If not, what was the "stalking" incident or incidents that you referred that previously took place and why did it preclude him from asking a non-stalking question at this event?  When and where did it take place, what was said, what administrative or security action was taken, and are there recordings of any such events?

5.  Is Jake precluded from asking you questions in the future?  Is he precluded from attending any of your speaking engagements in the future?  Have you given him any notice to stay away, or a cease and desist or has any form of restraining order been issued?

6.  Like Jake, I have been very critical of your writing in my own blogging.  Am I allowed to attend your events and ask you questions?  If so what are the parameters for asking you questions and do they differ from someone who might agree with you on your vaccine stance?

7.  Is there anyone else from the autism, vaccine injury, vaccine safety or anti-vaccine communities, or from the medical community that is skeptical of the safety and efficacy claims made about the current vaccine program, that are not allowed to attend your events or ask you questions?

8.  Finally, (and with brutal frankness) If Mr. Crosby's story is accurate, and he has been appropriate in his interactions with you, and your own desire to silence your challengers is at the heart of why you had him removed from the room, is this a pattern you intend to continue?  Can anyone asking you a question which you believe you will not not be able to answer well, or which might make you look bad in front of the audience, expect to be slandered and escorted from the room?

9.  As Seth Mnookin made similar charges against Jake earlier this month, have you been communicating with him about Jake, and is this a coordinated effort to slander him?

I want to get this cleared up as people have expressed in increasing interest in attending your speaking events and challenging your assertions, many of which (myself included) believe are grossly inaccurate and/or irresponsible.  We certainly want to know up front if you intend on misrepresenting any of us as you seem to have done with Jake or if it is Jake who is misrepresenting you.

Your prompt response is appreciated.

--

Ginger Taylor
Adventures In Autism
Facebook
Twitter
Vaccine Epidemic
818-402-9672

December 12, 2011

Mnookin/Crosby

Update: December 19th. One week out, and other than an auto reply, no response. Not even an "It's the holidays and I am knitting sweaters with my grandma, will get back to you in the new year."
Seth,

I read Jake's story on being ejected from your most recent event after asking a question during the question and answer period.

From his telling of the story, what you did seems to me be very heavy handed and inappropriate at the least, and some pretty ugly censorship and cowardice on your part at most.

As you have censored my own comments on your blog in the past, and have stated outright that you wish that David Kirby would be censored in his vaccine writing, I tend to believe Jake's story on its face, but I want to allow for the fact that Jake did not report the incident accurately, thus my reason for contacting you with a few questions.

1.  Did he accurately report the incident?

2.  If so, do you not believe that an apology to him is in order?

3.  If he did not report the incident accurately, what did he get wrong and is there a recording of the event?

4.  If so, what was the "heckling" incident that you referred to at a previous event and why did it preclude him from asking a non-heckling question at this event?  When and where did it take place, what was said, what administrative or security action was taken, and is there a recording of that event?

5.  Is Jake precluded from asking you questions in the future?  Is he precluded from attending any of your speaking engagements in the future?  Have you given him any notice to stay away, or a cease and desist or has any form of restraining order been issued?

6.  Like Jake, I have been very critical of your writing in my own blogging.  Am I allowed to attend your events and ask you questions?  If so what are the parameters for asking you questions and do they differ from someone who might agree with you on your vaccine stance?

7.  Is there anyone else from the autism, vaccine injury, vaccine safety or anti-vaccine communities, or from the medical community that is skeptical of the safety and efficacy claims made about the current vaccine program, that are not allowed to attend your events or ask you questions?

8.  Finally, (and with brutal frankness) If Mr. Crosby's story is accurate, and he has been appropriate in his actions at your events, and your own desire to silence your challengers is at the heart of why you had him removed from the room, is this a pattern you intend to continue?  Can anyone asking you a question which you believe you will not not be able to answer well, or which might make you look bad in front of the audience, expect to be slandered and escorted from the room?

I want to get this cleared up as people have expressed in increasing interest in attending your speaking events and challenging your assertions, many of which (myself included) believe are grossly inaccurate and/or irresponsible.  We certainly want to know up front if you intend on misrepresenting any of us as you seem to have done with Jake or if it is Jake who is misrepresenting you.

Your prompt response is appreciated.

--

Ginger Taylor
Adventures In Autism
Facebook
Twitter
Vaccine Epidemic
818-402-9672