March 31, 2008

Julie Gerberding Admits on CNN that Vaccines can Trigger Autism

This weekend Julie Gerberding, the head of the CDC, appeared on Dr. Sanjay Gupta's show, House Call, and explained that vaccines can trigger autism in a vulnerable subset of children. This is the claim that parents like me have been making since at least the 80's, and have been dismissed and even mocked for making it.

But no one in the main stream media seems to have noticed. Not even CNN. Not even Dr. Gupta who was sitting right in front of her.

[Video updated 4/2/08]





Apparently, if you dress in soft pink and speak in dulcet, reassuring tones, you can indict yourself in the biggest international health crisis of the times and not even your interviewer will notice.

It is time for Dr. Gerberding to be forced to give cogent answers to the difficult questions that it is her responsibility to truthfully address. From all I have seen, it will take an act of Congress to do it.

I am joining Hannah Poling's parents in calling for the immediate release of the Poling case documents, and calling for congressional hearings into the autism cases in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

This obfuscation and double speak must end.


*For more on this interview, read these:

An Invitation to Julie Gerberding to Help Her Find the Missing Information on Autism

Wait! Did Julie Gerberding Just Admit that Vaccines Trigger Autism!?

50 comments:

Lynn Ford said...

It's chilling to watch Julie Gerberding smile her way through this interview as though she were talking about the weather!!--and with so little sense of urgency you would almost fall asleep watching it!
Ginger, thanks for highlighting her ridiculous double speak and for keeping us all updated on recent developments.

Robin Nemeth said...

Oh for heaven's sake leave her alone. It's not even her job to care about what happened to your kid.

When I phoned the CDC a couple of weeks ago to call for Gerberding's resignation, I was told, and I quote, "she doesn't handle autism."

Robin Nemeth

Ginger said...

LOL!

An honest answer from your government at last!

No one handles autism!

~Miss Nelson said...

I linked to your post. This is just the most ridiculous thing in the world. Why go on tv?

Ginger said...

My email to Dr. Gupta today:

Dr. Gupta,

Three days ago, you interviewed Julie Gerberding and she admitted, as parents have been claiming for decades, that vaccines trigger autism in a subset of the population.

But when she said it, it seemed like you did not hear her.

Do you understand the magnitude of what was said on your show? And in light of it why are you continuing to run quotes from Paul Offit that 'there is no relationship between vaccines and autism, case closed'?

Have you seen this yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDD7wmQ2yYk

Since the Poling case you seem to have become someone who might want real answers to these questions, so I was surprised that you just let Gerberding's admission of a vaccine/autism connection pass.

Now that it has had a chance to sink in a little, what are you going to do about it?

Ginger Taylor, M.S.

erin lindsay neal said...

unbelievable! sadly, not that surprising.


Ginger, great response! Btw - your little boy looks so much like our 1 year old (so far he is "neuro-typical", but I'm petrified because my 10 year old is AS & SID)..love those blue eyes & strawberry blonde hair & chipmunk cheeks. Can't beat that! Keep up the good work, super blog!

Katie said...

although there maybe correlative evidence (i.e. an apparent link) between VULNERABLE children getting autism from vaccines, there is no hard evidence.

and to be honest, as a future pediatrician i will not treat patients that are not up to date on immunization.... mainly because it not only endangers them but also all other patients in a practice.

to reject vaccination based on the fear of potential autism is irrational, seeing as the cause of autism is unknow. for all we know, the vulnerable children are those with specific genetic variations not seen in the rest of the population (you know, all the others ones that have been vaccinated). and until there is some way to determine whether there is in fact a TRUE link, I stand my the statement that there is no EVIDENTIAL proof of such link.

if they find it and can have genetic testing to see the outcome all the better.... i'm all for the research.

besides, the point of that post was not what you seem to be nitpicking at... but rather the fact that there is a high autism incidence, to educate people on what the disease is, and RAISE AWARENESS and hopefully encourage people to donate for research... maybe then someone might be able to find some evidence as to this myth.

Casey said...

Katie, you're not a parent yet are you? If you are, I would be shocked. Your comment is completely medical talking points with no consideration given to parents who live with the reality of autism every second of every minute of every day.

Ginger said...

Katie,

Allow me to appeal to your sense of reason.

"although there maybe correlative evidence (i.e. an apparent link) between VULNERABLE children getting autism from vaccines"

If you watch the video again, you will know that the estimate inside the CDC right now is that the prevalence of VULNERABLE children is as high as 1 in 50. Which means roughly you will see around two of these kids every week in your practice.

If you decide that you will go with the recommended schedule, no matter what, you are relegating at least two kids a week to the trash heap.

My children was one of the VULNERABLE ones. Is it OK with you that my son suffered severe brain injury because a doctor would not use reasonable precautions in vaccinating him after the FIRST time he had a serious vaccine reaction?

You need to decide the answer to that now, because you are gonna get asked it at least two times a week, by the mothers of the VULNERABLE children that you consider acceptable losses in your ridged and ridiculous 'all vaccines good for all children' conviction.

"there is no hard evidence."

Katie... there is ASS LOADS of hard evidence! Just read it girl! Please! Start with the 30 or so studies I listed in that video... you can find all the abstracts and citations on this page:

No Evidence of Any Link

"and to be honest, as a future pediatrician i will not treat patients that are not up to date on immunization.... mainly because it not only endangers them but also all other patients in a practice."

Then here is what you need to do. When you hand out the "Welcome to Dr. Katie's Practice" sheet, make sure it says two things:

1. Only fully vaccinated people can come here.

2. (And most importantly) When I am in the exam room with you and your child, I will be making medical decisions for that child based on what I feel is in the best interests of the people int he waiting room.

You HAVE to do that. If you are basing my kid's treatment on the greater good, you have to tell me that the "patient" is the greater good. Other wise it is not informed consent.

"to reject vaccination based on the fear of potential autism is irrational, seeing as the cause of autism is unknown."

Katie, you are young and you have a chance still to start thinking critically.

HHS said that Hannah Poling's autism was triggered by her vaccines. Julie Gerberding got on TV and said the same thing.

Legally, and according to the statements of the two highest medical authorities in the country, Vaccines Trigger Autism.

"for all we know, the vulnerable children are those with specific genetic variations not seen in the rest of the population (you know, all the others ones that have been vaccinated)."

Again... watch the video, 1 in 50 may have the predisposition.

30 out of 30 autistic kids studied, 100% had the same biomarkers as Hannah.

Katie... this is only the 1st of more than 5000 cases to be heard. Let's say for a moment that Hannah has a genetic variation that is not seen in the rest of the population that allowed her vaccines to trigger autism.

What are the chances that the one in 5000 cases where autism was actually triggered by vaccines was the very first case to come before the Vaccine Omnibus hearings... out of all 5000 cases?

Well those odds of course are 1 in 5000.

Does that sound like good odds to you? Or do you think that maybe lots of those cases are just like Hannah?

"until there is some way to determine whether there is in fact a TRUE link, I stand my the statement that there is no EVIDENTIAL proof of such link."

But what you don't seem to understand is that YOU the DOCTOR bears the burden of proof of vaccine safety. It is not up to me to prove they to permanent injury (which they do because the Vaccine Package Inserts and Safety Data Sheets say they do, and the Vaccine Injury Compensation Court exists), it is up to YOU to prove to parents that they are safe.

(Check the VICP's web site for the list of covered vaccine injuries. You will see the word "DEATH" listed surprisingly often.)

"if they find it and can have genetic testing to see the outcome all the better.... i'm all for the research."

Forgive me... but I don't believe you. I don't think you are.

Because if you were, you would be reading the research that is already out there.

I listed 30 studies that support a vaccine link in the video above, yet you wrote a whole comment about how there is no proof with out even looking them up?

Sorry for my harshness, I am in a harsh mood tonight, but actions talk and bullshit walks. You want to stick a needle in my baby, you will have to prove to me you take the risks seriously by actually reading as much research as I have and be able to discuss it with me and answer ALL my questions to my satisfaction.

Long gone are the days when peds can just say, "benefits outweigh the risks", "trust your doctor".

"besides, the point of that post was not what you seem to be nitpicking at... but rather the fact that there is a high autism incidence, to educate people on what the disease is, and RAISE AWARENESS"

Sister.. awareness has been raised. Everyone is aware that autism exists. It is time to move past the message, "autism exists" to the REAL message: "Autism is Preventable and Treatable."

"...and hopefully encourage people to donate for research... maybe then someone might be able to find some evidence as to this myth."

Katie, I know I am being flip, but if you can listen to me, this is so important.

Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of parents reporting autistic regression immediately following vaccination is scientific evidence.

Thousands and thousands of kids who are recovering from autism based on treatments that presuppose that most cases of autism are toxic and viral insults, which in turn are most commonly derived from vaccines, is HUGE scientific evidence.

The HUNDREDS of studies and papers and cases reviews and books that support a connection are scientific evidence!!!

It is the HEIGHT of arrogance to call something a MYTH when you have not even looked into it, and it is DANGEROUS for you and for your future patients for you to become such an arrogant doctor so soon!

Think of all the ass hole know it all's that you have seen in your life and DON'T BE THEM!

Step back, humble yourself a little, and actually start reading the wealth of information that is out there.

Start with the book, Changing the Course of Autism. It is the first good, complete primer of all the emerging research that has come out in the last 10 years or so on the causes and treatments for autism. (Click on the recommended reading in my

AND THE TREATMENTS WORK! My son is half way recovered!

The AAP has just yesterday, finally agreed to team with the doctors that have been doing all this ground breaking research and treatment, and by the time you get into full swing in your practice, it will be mainstream.

Get the book and read it.

I would buy it for you but I am broke from treating my autistic son.

If you have ANY questions, email me, I will give you my phone number and you can call me at 3am and ask questions of me until dawn.

And if you decide not to do this, that you are going to just decide that the VULNERABLE are also the expendable.

Please, I mean this sincerely, don't be a doctor. At the very, least don't be a pediatrician. I can't bear any more sobbing phone calls from moms with arrogant, unteachable doctors like you who have ruined their VULNERABLE children.

Please think about it.

tamaram said...

Katie,
I'm sure in medical school you purchased a medical dictionary - please look up mercury. A neuro-toxic substance should not be injected in the bloodstream of an infant, child or an other human being reports the EPA - certainly not in amounts that exceed hazardous levels (which occurred and now part of our medical history).I don't know how much clearer this needs to be!!! I know farmers who for years have no longer used chemicals on their crops - and yet doctors are continuing to inject a neuro-toxic substance into it's population of babies, children and pregnant women. These highly educated doctors who will soon have to look at their profession and question some very basic truths. Yes - we injected toxic chemicals into our patients - yes we buried our heads in the sand because to think otherwise would mean we were wrong - yes we are now liable for damages (the big one) and yes we lost our credibility(another big one).
You can run - but you cannot hide! We have been raising our son with autism(mercury poisoning)for the past 16 years - any credibility that we had for the medical community and the CDC has evaporated just like their interest in helping our son.

Mo said...

My children are not autistic but only thanks to luck. I did what I was told and vaccinated them. My one daughter developed asthma and I stopped vaccinating. Why challenge her damaged immune system (asthma is an immune problem)further, I reasoned. My pediatrician acted like I was crazy.
Why is that crazy, I wondered. What were THEY thinking? Well, after this I began to wake upand smell the coffee. THEY are always right. THEY are not to be questioned. THEY know best. Well not for me. Nobody was telling me what to think, or more accurately, telling me THEY would do my thinking for me.
I started reading and reading and listening to my chiropractor and searching the internet. It's all there, it's just not mainstream. That doesn't make it wrong! Look it up!
Tedd Koren,DC
Weston Price, MD
Sherri Tenpenny,DO
Joseph Mercola, DO
Organic Conumers Associatiion
Natural Solutions Foundation

A defining moment for me was when a relative with an autistic child said that she didn't believe the vaccination connection and that diagnosis had just gotten better. And I thought to myself: this woman is out of her mind.
I knew no children while I was in school that behaved like the half dozen kids I could name off the top of my head with autism or asperger. There were NONE back then and they are common today! That's a single generation!! Something is causing it and it's not just genetic like down syndrome!
Wake up People!

STUART! said...

The preservative thermasal, where the supposed mercury comes from, hasn't been in vaccines since 2003 because of trial lawyers working for nutballs like you people. There is and never has been a link with autism.

Seriously, do some actual research. Vaccine denial is one of the most dangerous conspiracy theories out there. Reading this blog is like reading creation science.

Ed said...

I didn't have a blog account when I first read this. Thanks for posting that.

Ktietje85 said...

Wow, Stuart is a moron. It's pretty easy to not do any research and then say "there's no evidence." If you haven't read it, it doesn't exist, right?

My concern with vaccines is not limited to the evidence you've presented here. My daughter does NOT have autism, and she won't, because she hasn't gotten any vaccines! I couldn't forgive myself if I ruined her life, and I do know better (which, sadly, many parents did not). I've worked with tons of kids with autism and I KNOW what it does to them, what it's like. Not day-to-day but a lot better than morons like Katie and Stuart.

In addition to mitochondrial disease, heavy metal poisoning (hey, Stuart, did you know flu shots still contain thimerosal? btw you should also learn to spell), there is SO MUCH more evidence that vaccines are harmful.

Ever heard of adjuvants? Read this paper and learn how dangerous these are: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/adjuvants.html#ADJUVANTS,_PRESERVATIVES_AND_TISSUE_FIXATIVES_IN_VACCINES_
That paper also points out that doctors don't totally know how the immune system works (they just have "good theories") and so when they inject these things into your children, they are training the body to react in an unusual way to foreign substances. And that's not a problem for anyone?

http://www.christianpatriot.com/vaccines.htm
Here is a list of all the vaccines made with aborted fetuses. Even if you are pro-choice, how good can it be to inject our children with possibly mutated genetic material from other babies?! When you think about where vaccines come from, it's no wonder it's causing mutations and triggering genetic problems.

http://www.sunherb.com/truth_about_vaccines.htm
This article points out more problems. It has no citations and I wish it did, but I've found all of this information in several other places, it's just most concise here.

Has anyone looked at the research the CDC is doing recently? It's pretty useless. I can't find the exact link at the moment, but one study looked at "the age in which babies with autism and babies without autism received the MMR." What does that tell us, if the MMR is what CAUSED the autism? There would not be any difference in age at vaccination! Seems to me the CDC is asking the wrong questions.

Also, when did we start thinking of, say, rubella as a terrible, life-threatening disease? Most of the vaccines are for mild childhood illnesses which MAY cause serious complications, but this is unlikely (in comparison to the fact that up to 2% of kids may be seriously at risk for autism, a life-long condition, cited here). In most cases, vaccinated children who contract the illnesses anyway (which happens frequently in the case of chicken pox) are more likely to have a severe version or suffer complications. Most unvaccinated kids who contract the illnesses have a milder form. My mom sent me some research (she thinks I'm crazy) and it cited an example in Japan where many more kids got sick when not vaccinated...BUT when vaccinated, a higher percentage died! They didn't do that math for you, but I checked anyway.

There are many more articles and studies I could find, but I think that's enough.

My favorite part about this whole debate is no matter how much research I do, no matter how many studies I can cite, vaccine proponents will NOT read them, will NOT do real studies of their own, and then will tell me I am ignorant and uneducated. Really? The one who does the research is the uneducated one? Sigh.

spydyee said...

STOP IT ALL OF YOU!!!!!!

There is a subset of genetically neurologically typical kids and a subset of genetically neurologically diverse kids that are also genetically environmental toxin susecptible. If you draw a Venn Diagram consisting of two circles that touch but do not overlap and label one GND(genetically Neuro Diverse) and you label the other GNT (genetically Neuro Typical) you have the two basic types of people that are born into this discussion. Then if you draw a third circle that overlaps but does not fully contain either of the original circles you get a subgroup of kids that are born into both groups that are GETS 9geneticall environmental toxin susceptible)This means that some ND kids will get worse if exposed so they won't be the Aspies they could have been they will be diagnosed with Kanner's or PDD-NOS. The GNT kids will wind up somewhere on the spectrum depending on how much they are exposed to and how well they can dump it. The better they can dump the more Aspie-like they will be and the less they can dump the more damage occurs and the more Kanner-like they become. This is not complicated but it requires both sides to admit that the other side exists. I am and my kids are Genetic Autistics. We have 6 of my kids, me and my husband as well as three of my grandkids diagnosed on the spectrum and we run the gamut of the diagnoses. We have non-verbal Kanner Cuties, echolalic Kanner Cuties, ADHD Aspies, Aspies, and even a PDD-NOS. 2 of the kids are gifted and in gifted classes in addition to having an IEP for their Autism. We live in the Purple Haze of Autism and we were all born that way. If the anti-vaxers will acknowledge us then we (at least I and my like me) can acknowledge the existance of the GETS kids. The problem is that by denying that we exist and insisting that ALL Autism is caused by vaccines you alienate those whose support would unite the community and make our voice stronger. Also please don't tell me about when Eli Lilly put thiomerosal in vaccines unless you can tell me why they did that and when. You see I know why and when and I know that a there has come to light a Russian study describing Autism a full two years before the tragedy that led to the introduction of Thiomerosal into vaccines. Russia was already a closed country by the time this occurred and the work has only recently been released. The other problem with the vaccines cause all Autism is that my 6 year old daughter was diagnosed before she had a single immunization and the fact that I never had vaccines and yet I am Autistic.

Ginger Taylor said...

spydee...

Read the blog more often. you are actually on the same page as most of us. THis is where we are coming from:

What is diagnosed as autism is largely a toxic injury that happens to a genetically vulnerable subset, with many toxic triggers, vaccination being the largest bolus dose of toxins. And yes there are some unvaccinated people with autism.

Clearly Rhett's (which results in autism) proves that there is genetic autism, but we suspect that most cases are vaccine/toxic injuries. My son was. But I never argue with parents who claim that their child wasn't.

What our community is constantly pushing is to think in terms of "Autisms". What is diagnosed as ASD is likely a dozen different physical syndromes that result in the same behavioral symptoms.

CDC et al wants to deny that vaccine induced autism exists.

Until that sticking point is broken down, and they can admit that some cases are environmental and even iterogenic disorders, then all people with an autism diagnosis will be treated the same by the medical profession.

That has to stop as it is not based in reality.

Thanks for checking in and please come back often.

science girl said...

And now on to Ktietje85's comments, with the major points first:

Rubella, i.e. German measles, is not usually a problem if you get it (although, like any disease I know of with a vaccine for it, it can be fatal). It is a problem, however, if you are pregnant and not immune to it. Your fetus is then very much at risk of miscarriage and then death.

And news flash, doctors and scientists don't know everything (are you trying to tell us you do?). But we do know a lot about the immune system and are learning more each day. Those "good theories"... well, a theory means there's a mountain of evidence that the theory is correct and it's one step away from being a law (like the law of gravity). It's not like a hypothesis, which is an idea that someone is about to test. My hypothesis of the day: blue cheese causes autism. My theory of the day: the sun will come up tomorrow, like it has every day so far I've been alive, and astronomers have not yet come up with differing evidence. See the difference?

And no vaccines are made with aborted fetuses. None! They're usually made in chicken eggs or are made in vats from bacteria that produce a recombinant protein (like insulin) that your immune system will respond to (like it would if you actually got the disease). There's no way that you could inject a vaccine made from a human fetus into a human. Regulations wouldn't let you because of the risk of infection. What that site you quoted said was that fetal cell lines were used in the research, which is not the same thing at all. Let me know if this doesn't make sense, and I can explain more. Please don't go and do more research yourself, think you understand it, and then go telling other people misinformation.

Oh, last point, vaccines don't always take (it's why we depend on herd immunity to keep a community safe). If you do get vaccinated and it doesn't take, you then can get the disease. Most often, like with chicken pox, you will get sick later in life and have a more serious illness.

Ginger Taylor said...

SG,

Your first of two posts were removed for violating comments policy.

It is a pretty liberal policy of no "you suck" comments, and that one didn't really serve any purpose but to say you think that I suck.

Please feel free to repost your thoughts, but please back them up with something. If you believe I am proffering fallacious arguments, please point them out and make a case as to why I am wrong so that earnest debate can take place.

Thanks for visiting.

Batigol47 said...

Going to try to make a response based on what I gathered from the discontinued Youtube video comments to keep the discussion going:

Autsim is an exclusionary diagnosis, if other reasons are given, it is not Autism. Rett Syndrome is not Autism according to DSM-IV, despite having many of the same symptoms including the three you listed. It is listed ASD by the IDEA, and I think that is where you're having problems understanding the difference between Autism and autism-like symptoms. IDEA is an educational diagnosis, and useful because you are treating only outward conditions, not underlying medical issues in a school setting. DSM-IV is the medical diagnosis and is far narrower, and is the one used by CDC. Children who survive PKU for example, also display autism like symptoms,and would be listed ASD on IEPs.

You mention that alzheimers - dementia were not analogous as Autism and encephalopathy are the same as well rather than subsets. Again I have to disagree. Encephalopathy can be a variety of syndromes some reversible. For instance, CJD is an encephalopathy, but you wouldn't call a sufferer of mad cow disease autistic. Encephalopathy, is not more vague as you suggest, but more specific. We KNOW what the problem was, if not its origin, biologically. In Autism, by definition, we do not have a biological reason.

The internal cdc discussions were not about the particular type of Mito disorder in Poling, but of mitochondrial disorders in general, all of which, again, are not the same.
As for further studies into that specific disorder, I am sure there are some taking place as we speak designed to see if it occurs in autistic children more than the general population, even if they are not sponsored directly by the government. Besides, wouldn't you question any results sponsored by the government as biased?

You gave numbers on number of people dying from polio v. 16% neurological disorder, but that is disingenuous. The ability to diagnose, particularly after IDEA, pushes all borderline cases to be picked up, cases which may or may not have been present before, but I lean to present, as I myself have mild CP (from trauma at birth)that was never diagnosed because no one cared to look in the late 70's. I'm intelligent and was successful in school, largely by learning to cope with it. I realize that according to averages, the average student with the average disorder will on average need more help, and maybe I could have used help (I don't handwrite anything if I can help it and only print), but the point is the info is not there to make the rate of "neurological disorders" as epidemic as it seems from only having the current rate. Meanwhile, our population has more than doubled in 60 years, in no small part because fewer people died young and in the prime of life from communicable disease.

We were also discussing, and I don't see a response, the issue of government assistance: I asked if you were receiving SSDI, because every autistic child I have known (roughly in the 50's) has received some, even when the parents were wealthy. Treatment is outrageously expensive, I am well aware, but parents generally receive some assistance from the government regardless of whether they know what caused the condition or not.

anyway, not the most erudite post I have written, but I am just trying to transfer the ideas I saw in the discussion.

Montana said...

Actually, the Polins could have had their child tested for immunity before they vaccinated her. And not to critize Dr. Gerberding but I would have to agree with the fact that she does not understand fully when a child has autism, as I personally received autism after my first vaccine.

May autistic children recover!

Sincerely,
Montana
www.myautismrecovery.com

Sashi Anne said...

Wow. This is a debate with science on one side and emotions on the other. I sympathize strongly with all the parent's here with autistic children.
Scientists do have understanding of the immune system, despite what most of you seem to think. This is why diseases such as asthma can be managed, organ transplants can be accomplished and infectious diseases can be averted.
Giving a child a vaccine is not exposing their immune systems to an agent that will cause them to react in an unusual way. The child's immune system is working in a perfectly normal way as they would if they were exposed to any foreign antigen (which they are exposed to day after day in their normal environment). Their bodies see a molecule or series of molecules that look like a certain virus or bacteria, the body makes antibodies to said agents. That's it, nothing magical happening here. Very well understood.
I concede that scientists to do know everything, nor do they say they do, but they have an incredibly more complicated and larger view picture of these processes than a layperson. It is ridiculous to make random associations based on what you believe is the cause of autism.
By proliferating the message that children should not be vaccinated and that vaccines are dangerous to use, you are helping to foster a population that will develop carriers for many of these very dangerous diseases that have mostly been eradicated in the United States due to the MMR.
Do you think the CDC, NIH and the UK National Health Service would neglect to address the issue of autism and vaccines? Do you all honestly believe that the government has any interest in propagating a potentially harmful device?
And what about the drug companies? Don't you think they have done(and continue to do) an immense amount of research to cover their asses? After all, if a connection between autism and their vaccines are made, they are looking at quite the hefty law suit.
Sorry Jenny, I think you are doing a lot of damage.

Lori said...

I was vaccinated in college as I only had 1 MMR as a child (only 1 required when I was born). Ended up in the hospital having spinal taps and many other tests until it was determined the MMR was causing my fevers, brain swelling and illness. I missed the first semester of school. That was age 18. Imagine what these vaccinations could do to an infant. I don't believe vaccines cause all cases of autism, but I do believe a large population of children with autism are a direct result of the vaccines. I'm not of the camp that it's strictly thimerisol, but the combination of chemical additives/preservatives. All you have to do is look at the ingredient list to see all of the things that normally you wouldn't let any human consume. Instead of continuing the battle, maybe the medical field should be working harder at finding a test to show predisposition to certain environmental factors. If you don't know someone with autism who's parents claim vaccinations caused it, find one. Ask to see video of the child before and after. You might not be so quick to judge.

Lori said...

Just a clarification... the "you" in "you might not be so quick to judge" are the relentless people trying to say that no autism is caused by vaccination. Certainly not to those trying to make the government and scientists see the conncetion. Thanks for your continued hard work. And Ginger, would love to know if Dr. Gupta answers you!

Richard said...

If you like, you might send the message below my signature out to your email list.

Best,

Richard

Richard P. Milner
Public Affairs Media, Inc.

Do vaccines cause injury including Autism?

Dr. Andrew Moulden says yes, absolutely, and discusses his findings in a video interview.

A New Explanation.

Watch our video interview as Dr. Moulden presents a new comprehensive and measureable physiological explanation of the underlying cause of vaccine injuries, including Autism.

Moulden says the fundamental cause is our body’s reaction to the vaccines themselves.

According to Moulden no vaccine is safe. All vaccines carry the risk of major injury.

If we want to stop chronic disease, including Autism, says Moulden, we have to listen to the many thousands of parents who say their child was normal before receiving a vaccine, and clearly damaged after being vaccinated.

Moulden, an MD, PhD, holds degrees in Biological Psychology, Developmental Neuro-psychology and Language Development in Children; Clinical and Cognitive Neuroscience, Neuro-electro Physiology, and Functional Brain Imaging.

His clinical training is in Psychometric Assessment of children (MA), Clinical Neuro-psychology (PhD), and Neurology (MD clerkships) and Psychiatry (residencies in Ottawa and Toronto). His PhD comprehensive exams were on post-concussional syndrome and acquired brain injuries.

Dr. Moulden and other critics and proponents discuss this issue in excerpted video interviews on our Website. Our goal is to inform the public as we produce an investigative documentary on vaccine and mercury safety. We invite you to visit our Website: www.publicaffairsmediainc.org

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Public Affairs Media, Inc.
PublicAffairsMedia.RPMilner@gmail.com

MarieAnne said...

If children with an underlying mitochondrial disorder develop autism as a result of a fever or "stressor" then the infections that vaccines prevent are presumably a much greater risk?

Ginger Taylor said...

MarieAnne,

Good question. Sounds like something that the government should be studying.

But they aren't. There are no studies looking into vaccine encepalopathy and comparing it to occurrences of mito/encepalopathy that occurred as a result of natural viral infection. (I don't know of any such cases).

Also... FYI... in at least one other case (Madison Hiatt) the VICP has ruled that a vaccine encepalopathy triggered autistic symptoms in a child that was never even tested for mito dysfunction. So they should be explaining that ruling as well.

To the others, sorry that this thread has been so neglected. I have not been able to blog much in the last few months but I hope to be gearing back up in the next month or so and get back to the debate.

Thanks for your comments and keep them coming.

Xpressions said...

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your enlightening and liberating exploration. My son is one of those vulnerable kids who reacted to his 18 month MMR in exactly the way described - fever of over 101 and he slept for nearly 36 hours, not waking even to eat. One month later he began walking on his toes, a month after that flapping his hands and spinning and in another month he seemed to forget his name and who I was. A year later he was non verbal.

I have been told I was crazy, desperate and in denial about my son, but I know what I saw. Whether he is in the 1 in 50 group is a mystery because no genetic testing has ever been done. In fact, I don't any child (and I know plenty) with autism who has. I felt a little tricked with the mytochondria because of how difficult it is to determine, so even though the 2 vaccine injury cases recently won, leaves the rest of us out even though their children look just like mine. Once again a case of the haves and the have nots.

But thank you for validating what I have known to be true for so long - I am not crazy - my son regressed and I have the video tapes to prove it.

One other question re: thimerasol - it was a voluntary recall - has anyone ever done a count on how many vaccines were ever really returned. There is this absurd assumption that since the recall, all thimerasol tainted vaccines instantly vanished. How many actually were returned and how long did it actually take? It is a preservative so isn't that the point - that they could last forever? Just curious - I've never heard anyone address the actual number recalled.

I also blog about autism at xpressionsbydesign at blogger.com.

crashcup_clyde said...

This message is to Katie--the pro-vaccine "soon-to-be pediatrician" and to all others "pro" and "con" on the issue.

There was this BRILLIANT prosecutor from who was voted by his colleauges in Ohio's 88 Counties as an "Ohio Prosecutor of the Year"

The strategy that this prosecutor employed was that he would assemble the 20 pieces of evidence the police had given them and he would see what the Ohio Revised Code stated was necessary to sustain a conviction and he would use only his 3 or 4 strongest pieces of evidence.

It was a tactic which infuriated defense attorneys, since they would hope to dwell on the 16 "weaker" pieces of evidence in hopes of confusing the jury.

Also, the prosecutor would attempt to make the case as SIMPLE as a "lay individual" could possibly understand.

I have NO PROBLEM AT ALL making appeals to your ENHANCED UNDERSTANDING of matters due to your advanced educational level....

...but at the SAME TIME, let's not THROW OUT the evidence which a simple "lay individual" could easily understand--- I mean, after all---this is the strategy which 88 prosecutors felt was worthy of bestowing their profession's "highest award".

Are we okay with that?... Good!



You spoke of "no hard evidence", Katie... your words-- not mine.

There's "hard evidence" that the CDC told a lie, Katie.

...and it was a GREAT BIG LIE also, not an "itty-bitty, teentsy-weentsy lie.

They ditched a study by one of THEIR OWN CDC researchers, Katie, who was ordered to perform the work.

But far worse than ditching just the "statistical study"--- they were in the position of having to engage in FAR WORSE conduct; to wit,....

...they had to ditch the ENTIRE FREAKING DATABASE of 100,000 medical records.

If you're studying to be a pediatrician then a REQUIRED COURSE would have to be "Statistics for the Health Care Sciences"...

..any analysis of 100,000 medical records is done STATISTICALLY not in a chemist's laboratory.

If there was a problem with with the CDC expert's study--it should have been released and subjected to critical analysis known as "peer review"

..and other statistical studies could have been performed on the database of 100,000 medical records.

But the Simpsonwood CDC-sponsored conference of 52 experts/officials shows JUST WHY they not only refused to release the CDC study BUT ALSO why they had to ditch the entire database that the study was based upon.

crashcup_clyde said...

Innocent governments and government agencies don't need to lie, Katie.

From the "Deadly Immunity" article by Robert Kennedy in Rolling Stone

"According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.

Even for scientists and doctors accustomed to confronting issues of life and death, the findings were frightening. "You can play with this all you want [by performing a variety of statistically valid tests]," Dr. Bill Weil, a consultant for the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the group. The results "are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston, an immunologist and pediatrician from the University of Colorado whose grandson had been born early on the morning of the meeting's first day, was even more alarmed. "My gut feeling?" he said. "Forgive this personal comment -- I do not want my grandson to get a thimerosal-containing vaccine until we know better what is going on."

MrClydeCrashCup's note--"statistical significance" means "correlation"..."correlation" means you can actually PREDICT how may kids are going to get autism


"The CDC paid the Institute of Medicine to conduct a new study to whitewash the risks of thimerosal, ordering researchers to "rule out" the chemical's link to autism. .....The agency turned its database on childhood vaccines -- which had been developed largely at taxpayer expense -- over to a private agency, America's Health Insurance Plans, ensuring that it could not be used for additional research

MrClydeCrashCup's note-- the words "rule out" are a direct quote... in any study that is "scientifically conducted" nothing is EVER "ruled in" or "ruled out" ahead of time


"It withheld Verstraeten's findings, even though they had been slated for immediate publication, and told other scientists that his original data had been "lost" and could not be replicated. And to thwart the Freedom of Information Act, it handed its giant database of vaccine records over to a private company, declaring it off-limits to researchers.

MrClydeCrashCup's note-- Innocent governments and government agencies don't need to lie... what should have been done if they wanted other viewpoints was to RELEASE THE DATA for further "peer review" by other experts in the field... I mean if they truly felt there was truly something wrong with the original study you OF COURSE release it for "peer review"... but they already KNEW the study was done correctly by the "statistical significance" quote.... these were the TOP 52 ENCHILADAS in the field of "vaccine research" and they participated in the coverup

crashcup_clyde said...

in the "Deadly Immunity" article that RFK
references in the video you can hyperlink to by clicking here...

..the CDC claims the database of 100,000 medical records was "lost" and unavailable for further research YET the CDC transferred the database to a private agency, America's Health Insurance Plans.

People who lie are trying to cover up a truth

1) Did the CDC tell a lie when they said the database was "lost" ?


2) Did the CDC "lose" the database in which a researcher stated the results were "statistically significant" pointing to a connection to "autism" and other neurological disorders?


Katie... I know you're a busy person... and I may face a "crimes against humanity" charge for what I am doing now.... but your MEDICAL ASSISTANCE/EXPERTISE is needed this instant in the YouTube Forums as I am presently administering the INTERNET EQUIVALENT of a "wedgie" to a "denial monkey" that refuses to engage in "intellectually honest debate" on this topic (scroll to the bottom section of the page OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE you can hit the "end" command button near your numeric keypad)...but for God's sake, get there fast AS I"M GETTING READY TO give his undershorts yet another good yank!!!)

crashcup_clyde said...

...and Katie... like that attorney who won the "Ohio Prosecutor of the Year" award....

CNN Doctor Sanjay Gupta should have been asking Gerberding about why the CDC told a great big lie as to the whereabouts of those 100,000 medical records...

..and also the statements made at that Simpsonwood conference.

In no way, shape or form is "pitching softballs" a manifestation of "journalistic integrity"... once a GREAT BIG LIE has been told, the "gloves come off" as they say in pugilistic circles.

The media is the BIGGEST of all the culprits here... no doubt about it since the phrasing of these questions ACTUALLY MET the dictionary definition of "propoganda"

A good case could be made for Senator Bill Frist being the second-biggest criminal here since he took money to immunize these pharmaceutical companies against lawsuits and left the devastated families to "twist in the wind" financially.

I am not aquainted with any who have autistic children--- but I myself am going to direct my efforts at getting criminal charges preferred and tort damages awarded to the families

SpiritualHealer said...

Even though the Pharmaceutical companies and governments won't admit to it, we do not need an official declaration from them to know that vaccines containing both mercury and aluminum based ingredients are unsafe. An official admission of guilt from both governments and pharma industry will never happen as it could set a legal precedence for massive class action lawsuit that could be worth trillions of dollars. It could bankrupt both pharma and governments. This is why there will never be an official admission of guilt. Pharma produces vaccines and governments force it upon the masses. Get your latest Swine Flu Updates at my blog http://fluhealer.blogspot.com

Suno said...

People are glib, it's all about the mercury in the vaccine. Liquid Zeolites are needed to chelate all heavy metals from the body, and blue green algae to repair and restore the DNA.

Vincent Alderisio,
www.vaccine-injury.com

Simon said...

I have been working with ASD clients for nearly 10 years and I have been trying to start a dialogue about the likely relation between vaccines containing mercury and autism development. This has not been easy however and most of my colleagues either berate me for "believeing in conspiracy theories" or just go silent and try to avoid the topic because they don`t know enough or think it`s uncomfortable.

I was wondering though what possible impact it might have on the treatment of patients with ASD if the hypothesis of mercury poisoning was adopted. As far as I know genetic differences determine whether one can metabolize the Thimerosal and get rid of it or not, but would there be any way of reversing such damage in those who are diagnosed with autism, if indeed their malady has been caused by mercury? Or is the damage irreperable?

Simon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Simon said...

Oh and regarding the debate about whether or not autism is a form of mercury poisoning this should be demonstrable through a comparative study of mercury poisoning and autism, specifically regarding parrallell symptomatology.

Such studies have been made and are accessible on the web. They are highly convincing as many of the symptoms are identical. Of course it will develop differently if you are sprayed with mercury oxide as an adult than it will if you are injected with Thimerosal when 18 months old, but the similarities between the two conditions are conspicuous. Almost as conspicuous as the vaccine producers failure to perform such a study themselves. Or if they have performed them to keep the records of them secret of falsified.

The prevailing consensus in the psychiatric field is that autism is a almost purely genetic neurological disorder, but this makes close to no sense as surely if there were thousands of children drooling in corners in previous centuries someone would have taken note of this so we would know. Contrary to this rare examples of persons with autistic symptoms have been noted in history as something quite out of the ordinary, usually attributed to demonic posession. Considering that autism has now exploded into an epidemic it is unbelievable to me that an entire scientific field clings to its preconceived consensus regarding the disorder instead of looking for an environmental cause for it.

I can understand that psychiatrists who have built their careers on the hypothesis that it is of genetic origin might be hesitant to admit now that they were mistaken and would rather shout extra loudly that they are right while everyone else is misinformed; I can understand that vaccine makers would rather not lose revenue by having it exposed and that health authorities are worried about losing public confidence. But surely the health of children demand that such considerations be ignored.

For a comparative study of autism and mercury poisoning http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/July2001/AutismUniqueMercPoison.htm is quite extensive and informative.

Simon said...

@Sashi Anne.

Wow, talk about ignorance!

First of all you pompously declare that you represent "science" against the "emotions" of "laypersons", and then you totally fail to provide any scientific information whatsoever but vagueries and euphemistic dribble you for all I know are reading off the back of a milk carton.

"giving a child a vaccine is not exposing their immune systems to an agent that will cause them to react in an unusual way"

For someone who is as well versed in science as yourself this is a surprisingly weak argument. It implies directly that everything under the sun is safe to inject into your bloodstream as long as it is called a vaccine. According to your vast scientific expertise even cyanide would be perfectly fine to inject just as long as some arrogant person in a white coat says it is. We`re back to leeches and droughts of lead with the medical establishment it seems, or exorcisms and throwing virgins into volcanoes.

Following your magnificent scientific exposè I must conclude that no evidence is needed if you are either 1) the government, 2) established health authorities, 3) a vaccine manufacturer or 4) pretending to be a medical expert in a blog.
Reversely if you are none of these things it doesn`t matter have much correllating documentation you have, how much direct physical evidence, how many exposed medical frauds you can point to or how much you research a topic.

the Popes of allopatic medicine know best, even when they`re pompous morons like you.

sharon said...

Ginger et al, good luck addressing this madness, the last time I commented on this blog with a rational point about vaccines, it was deleted. There are some who are locked into their positions, they are frightened of anything that contradicts ther point of view. Even if it is good news.

sharon said...

I meant Katie, apologies.

Ginger Taylor said...

Sharon,

My comments policy is merely that I reserve the right to remove posts that are more insult than content. And I rarely removed posts. Maybe two or three a year.

So if there is a point that you feel that needs being made, feel free to post it. If there is no ugly insults in it, I promise that it will not be deleted.

Melissa Vines said...

I find it interesting that she is now the President of Merck's vaccine division. hmm... http://www.naturalnews.com/027789_Dr_Julie_Gerberding_Merck.html

benzaware said...

Caught in a world of thinkers and nonthinkers, individuals and puppets, informed and brainwashed individuals. This is such a no brainer for those who use theirs. The biggest smokescreen in the history of health care will go down as such. All you fools who actually believe that science if free of corruption are a disgrace for the future. The truth will prevail.

HBO said...

Big Pharma has admitted as much -

http://healthbitesonline.blogspot.com/2010/04/big-pharma-admits-vaccines-cause-autism.html

kira27 said...

So, Katie, How is it that someone's unvaccinated child will pose a threat to everyone else's vaccinated children again? I'm sorry if I don't quite understand that. Oh, btw who paid you to make that ridiculous post?

RJ Jamieson said...

Not true. Peer reviewed studies have basically substantiated Dr. Wakefield's work. Look it up...they are there. One was published recently. There are a few brave immunologists and retired vaccine researchers who have stood up to discredit vaccines in whole. As a physician, you should look at some of the damning veterinary research such as the Purdue study. One vaccine causes the body to release circulating autoimmune antibodies to EVERY protein in the body. Its unconscionable that you would demand a patient be vaccinated or refuse treatment!! Shame on you. If vaccines are so great then they only risk themselves. I'm if the unvaxed generation who got all the childhood regulars (mmrc). We all survived and I don't know a single case of any of the kids in my school that died or was hospitalised. Autism rates were very low, not the 1:50 they are now.

RJ Jamieson said...

Right on!

Deb McNicholas said...

Hi everyone! I am trying to learn more about vaccine safety and why I am here, among others. What I would like to know is, why some who comment here are behaving in a rude manner? In the academic realm, we are not allowed to be rude, simply debate our premise. Our tone must be appropriate. I do not see this online a lot in the comments section. Whether someone uses their real name or an alias, it really doesn't matter. The result can be the same...calling people names because their premise was different than yours, or insulting people for the same. I see both anti-vaccine & pro-vaccine people behaving the same towards each other. I understand passion, especially for parents who have children who suffered from adverse reactions to vaccines. Anger has a place, most definitely. Being rude though, that accomplishes nothing. Speaking from my viewpoint on learning about this debate, I am turned off by such. I usually leave a forum and never go back for this reason. I have a great friend I met via Facebook who lives in New Zealand and is anti-vaccine. I love the online chats we have either in posts on FB after she posts a blog link like this one or an article. I was completely pro-vaccine when I started talking with her about all of this. She is humble, and she displays immense integrity that fostered my respect for her, my trust in what she asserts about vaccines. I am not 100% on board yet because honestly, it is complicated and I have yet to read all the information she has given me & out in cyberspace. She actually posted this blog post to her FB, so as I always do, I read and try to learn. I go to comments and hope to learn more. And I read all the comments here which I usually do not do for the above reason I stated and because sometimes there are hundreds of comments, too many to read.

Deb McNicholas said...

As I told my good friend (her child has autism btw, which is why she tries to educate me and everyone else on her FB), and I will tell all of you, you will lose a vast amount of people like me by displaying anger and rudeness to others. Not anger because of what happened to your children. That I can understand. I have one disabled child myself and although vaccines did not injure him, I used to be angry over lack of education for the need for folic acid prior to pregnancy. My son has Spina Bifida and since the day he was born to just a year ago, I thought because I did not take folic acid which is included in good vitamins, my son was born with SB. My oldest son was diagnosed last year with SB but a lower form and why he has such high functionability. The big picture came into play by adding my sister who has Chiari Malformation which is present in most people with SB. It appears to be genetic in our family on my Dad's side per a little digging into our Genealogy. I still believe in educating people on the need for folic acid however. I am educated, delve into research myself or via my classes (late student of higher education). I appreciate when I am in a forum such as this one, voice my opinion respectfully, and another person responds the same. My friend in New Zealand, she is like this when it comes to my views. She chooses to learn from me and share her views rather than become angry with me. It is clear all of you who have children who suffered because of vaccines are angry. I would be too! But should your anger be expressed here towards other comments? I do not want someone raking me over the coals for my thoughts. In reality, if I sat across from someone discussing this and they felt anger, chances are they would keep their cool. I know some people don't, those are the people I do not tolerate in my life because I won't be put down or have someone raise their voice to me because I think differently. The old saying is true, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. So as much as I understand where you all are coming from, on both sides, and even in response to someone who has been rude; ultimately, it serves no purpose except stirring the pot. No one will come to believe any new knowledge about vaccines in this manner. All that happens is a bunch of arguing.

Deb McNicholas said...

(continued) I want to learn. My kids are too old to benefit from ending vaccinations. They are in their early 20's and likely will marry and have kids...I hope ;) and if this all is indeed true, I would pass on my findings and encourage them to use their noggin's and not vaccinate. Btw, the people here who say Physician's do not know everything are right. My personal opinion is we have a partnership with our doctors. They have way more knowledge than we do about their specialty, but I also feel I have a responsibility as well. When my doctor says you need to take this pill, or you need this test, or surgery, I do not do any of it without doing my own research first. It is difficult to do this and sometimes insurance won't allow it. My experience has been positive and between the three of us, we have 14 doctors. I have fired doctors too, for being less receptive and in some cases mean, thinking they know it all. Back on track about vaccines, I still feel conflicted over disease and its prevalence in Society in that if vaccines suddenly disappeared, would all disease come back in full force and infect a larger number than current statistics? I am not convinced yet on that point. But I am willing to learn more. My effort here in posting is to encourage you who use language that is counterproductive like "moron" or use a curt or demeaning tone, on either side of the argument, to think about how you would receive that if it were directed at you, and to think about what I am stating regarding receptibility of readers like me. Some folks just like to argue and nothing will stop that for them. But others may think, hey, her thoughts have merit. Maybe some will run from the discourse and never learn a thing? I do appreciate Ginger Taylor being brave enough to put herself out there for the vicious world to critique. I will be starting a blog soon and just started writing for a blog/website myself. I think I won't read the comments under my piece ;)

Deb McNicholas said...

Hi, I am pretty sure I left three comments, a break down one that wouldn't post due to too many characters. Let me know if you did not receive all three. Thanks!