First Seth Mnookin said he was a heckler, but now wont answer questions or offer details about said heckling. Now Paul Offit has upped the ante and announced that Jake was his stalker.
So as with Mnookin, I have written to Dr. Offit and asked him for details of Jake's problematic behavior. You may recognize much of the letter, as I merely modified the letter I sent to Mnookin a few weeks ago, as this is practically the identical scenario that happened a few weeks ago.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Jake Crosby Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:40:00 -0500 From: Ginger Taylor To: Paul Offit
Dr. Offit,
I read Jake Crosby's story on being ejected from your most recent event after asking a question during the question and answer period.
From his telling of the story, what you did seems to me be very heavy handed and inappropriate at the least, and some pretty ugly censorship and slander on your part at most.
As you have been untruthful about offenses that were never committed by your opponents in the past, (I reference JB Handley's successful libel lawsuit against you and the Orange County Register's retraction of your charges against a CBS reporter when you were unable to back them up), I tend to believe Jake's story on its face, but I want to allow for the fact that Jake did not report the incident accurately, thus my reason for contacting you with a few questions.
1. Did he accurately report the incident, and that he has only been in contact with you once before, two years ago, via email?
2. If so, do you not believe that an apology to him is in order?
3. If he did not report the incident accurately, what did he get wrong?
4. If not, what was the "stalking" incident or incidents that you referred that previously took place and why did it preclude him from asking a non-stalking question at this event? When and where did it take place, what was said, what administrative or security action was taken, and are there recordings of any such events?
5. Is Jake precluded from asking you questions in the future? Is he precluded from attending any of your speaking engagements in the future? Have you given him any notice to stay away, or a cease and desist or has any form of restraining order been issued?
6. Like Jake, I have been very critical of your writing in my own blogging. Am I allowed to attend your events and ask you questions? If so what are the parameters for asking you questions and do they differ from someone who might agree with you on your vaccine stance?
7. Is there anyone else from the autism, vaccine injury, vaccine safety or anti-vaccine communities, or from the medical community that is skeptical of the safety and efficacy claims made about the current vaccine program, that are not allowed to attend your events or ask you questions?
8. Finally, (and with brutal frankness) If Mr. Crosby's story is accurate, and he has been appropriate in his interactions with you, and your own desire to silence your challengers is at the heart of why you had him removed from the room, is this a pattern you intend to continue? Can anyone asking you a question which you believe you will not not be able to answer well, or which might make you look bad in front of the audience, expect to be slandered and escorted from the room?
9. As Seth Mnookin made similar charges against Jake earlier this month, have you been communicating with him about Jake, and is this a coordinated effort to slander him?
I want to get this cleared up as people have expressed in increasing interest in attending your speaking events and challenging your assertions, many of which (myself included) believe are grossly inaccurate and/or irresponsible. We certainly want to know up front if you intend on misrepresenting any of us as you seem to have done with Jake or if it is Jake who is misrepresenting you.
Your prompt response is appreciated.
20 comments:
Wow! 60 Minutes has nothing on you, Ginger! Offit's likely silence will mean you touched a nerve. Keep up the good work.
Hi Ginger!! You US folks should be proud of Jake Crosby. He is 'dangerous' to the pharma sponsored vaccine apologists only because he both speaks and demands the truth. His politely delivered questions to both Offit and Mnookin were pertinent ones, deserving of answers, and unlike SOME persons, he NEVER interrupts or disrupts a speaker, waiting patiently for his turn to speak.
As an intelligent representative of US young persons, Jake should have been treated with respect by Offit and the event co-ordinators. Throwing out Jake and editing the footage reflects far more adversely on Offit than on Jake. Instead of attacking Jake's character and motivation. Offit should have simply declined the question and invited Jake to meet with him 'behind the scenes' after the lecture. It says a lot about the arrogance of Offit that instead he chose to accuse Jake of 'stalking' him. Jake's indignant response to this was to point out that he Jake, lives near the venue and it was Offit who did the travelling. Even that incredibly 'thick' and sycophantic audience must have wondered about these extreme actions to avoid answering a perfectly legitimate question.
Offit also accused Jake of 'vilifying' him on the Age of Autism site, but Jake's articles are mere reporting of Offits OWN words and actions. Offit's carefully nurtured 'personna' as some kind of compassionate 'elder statesman' attempting to save humanity from 'villains' like Andrew Wakefield and now Jake Crosby is unravelling!!
Offit has made $millions from developing and promoting vaccines. I was gratified to hear someone else in the audience asking a question about the dubious safety of Rotateq. I hope that 'humanity' is at last demanding to be told the truth!!
Where did this conference take place? If it occurred in a hotel then why should the hotel management not have the right to boot Jake out the door if the people who've booked the conference hall request it, just in the same way that Kim Stagliano of Age of Autism had me booted out of the Holiday Inn when I was there making legitimate statements and asking legitimate questions at her book signing?
Sounds to me like stalking. Perhaps you should try to understand something that I was told by a counselor after the county social workers became involved in my home after some death threats-- people don't have to be interested in something just because you are.
Just to avoid any misunderstanding btw, the death threats were against me, not from me.
www.nemeths.info
Robin;
Robin; I am not sure where it took place, but I think it was inside the National Institute of Health building itself??? But it could have been held in a motel conference room because they do like to do things like that. REGARDLESS: it was a federal agency that was holding the conference--- you know part of the Republic that is for the people and is the people???
Jake ask a question after the speech along with all the others. He did not interupt the speech.
The NIH and Paul Offit is hardly a private mother who has written a book about her three daughters with autism.
What did you do to her? You must have been really mean? And why would you have cared enough to do anything to her?
I understand the anger if you are a mother who watched your child react to a vaccine. I even understand the fire in your soul if you are a young nursing student or a student of science that has just gotten out from under the propagandia of the learning atomosphere of a Univeristiy (been there myself) other than that I don't get your passion????
Mr Nemeth, I don't understand? You say:-
"I was there making legitimate statements and asking legitimate questions at her (Kim Stagliano's) book signing?"
What exactly WERE these 'legitimate questions and statements'? A book signing session in a hotel is NOT the same as a public lecture in an auditorium. You appear to have acted in a way which crossed the boundaries of what is acceptable behaviour in a hotel.
Of course if I have got this wrong please put me right.
You expect because it was a federal agency hosting that means everyone’s treated the same? I learned in school about a lot of nonsense that’s supposed to be in the Constitution – how we all get to sue the government for redress for harm done. Oops, not actually the case. But I’m no lawyer so I’ll try to just tell you what’s happened, not what your rights are supposed to be or what to expect.
If the book signing took place in a hotel it’s my understanding that the management can ask Jake to leave. As I was asked to when I went to the Holiday Inn in with my shirt that said ‘Age of Autism – Sold Out’. Do you think that’s mean? I don’t give a rat’s rear end. It was my right to wear the shirt just as it was Kim’s right to censor me, and it’s the truth. When people asked me why I was wearing it I told them. Do you think that’s mean? Censorship - only problematic when it’s a threat to your friends.
I’d like to know where the signing occurred. I recently had a sign(picture of a syringe with the words ‘mercury’and ‘autism/alzheimers’)taken from me by a policeman in Tower City Center. Was told the mall is private property and the owner didn’t like my sign. Not so straight forward, this freedom of speech thing. But nonetheless it’s often fairly obvious that people have a hidden agenda when they’re trying to silence others, no matter the location.
I don’t know what a ‘private’ mother is. Kim is editor on a public site, and profits from sponsors who make money because of the autism epidemic. Doesn’t mean she’s corrupt. But I stand by my theory that those who are deceitful (censorship of that which threatens your interests is deceit) while profiting are corrupt. How did she stand to profit by censoring me? Dunno. Perhaps it was simply in getting Autism Speaks help in passing legislation she wanted. Perhaps there’s more to it. But I’ve no doubt that she did.
Is it simply because she’s a mother who writes about autism that you feel that she’s entitled to censor another person’s legitimate speech? Of course she’s entitled, but you also feel that there’s nothing wrong with what she did. According to you it’s wrong when it happened to Jake but not when it happened to me. If being a mother who writes about autism means it’s ok to be deceitful, how nice for me -I’m entitled as well. I’ve no interest however in taking advantage of my privilege, as a mother of a child with autism, to be deceitful. Maybe one day when I too have figured out how to profit from this genocide. I’ve met few people whose respect means all that much to me.
Nothing in my behavior in that hotel was unacceptable, unless you didn’t want other people to hear what I had to say. I was in fact saying little, and interrupting no one. I stayed in the conference room without objections for a couple of hours. Tho I hadn’t paid I was told it was ok. When Kim arrived I was told to leave the conference hall allegedly because there was food (food I didn’t eat) there. I left, stood in the hall and was told to leave there, so I went into the parking lot and stood with a sign that said what my shirt said. I was then told to leave the parking lot, so I stood on the sidewalk with my sign same as I did with AS when they didn’t want the truth told.
My first reaction upon being censored by Kim a year and a half ago was rage, at the betrayal. Then I told myself that if she thought that she could accomplish something by working with the organization, then maybe that would be a good thing. “Patience,” I told myself. Somebody told me, years ago, that Autism Speaks is a really big ship and they take a long time to turn around. Well it’s clear to me that this ship ain’t turning. It’s just getting bigger all the time, and taking on more people.
Btw, just got an email from Autism One. It begins ‘Hi (Contact First Name)’. Lol well they sure don’t have a clue who I am. They would like a donation. I marked it ‘spam’ and trashed it.
www.nemeths.info
Ginger:
Dr. Profitt has nothing to gain and much to lose by responding to you, although the ice pick of truth you use in the letter is a pleasure to watch.
My one suggestion to Jake would be for him to immediately ask a question soon as he begins speaking, with no preamble or set up. Just a direct, incisive question.
The preambles Jake has been opening with give the Moonbats and Profitts (and event organizers) an opening that has been used against Jake twice in a row now.
If Jake can get out just one biting question in 1-3 sentences, it will hang in the air like cannon smoke if he is led away and we can then ask the question in places like this with the assurance it was the question they were avoiding, not the "stalker."
Robin Nemeth said:-
"When Kim arrived I was told to leave the conference hall allegedly because there was food (food I didn’t eat) there. I left, stood in the hall and was told to leave there, so I went into the parking lot and stood with a sign that said what my shirt said. I was then told to leave the parking lot, so I stood on the sidewalk with my sign same as I did with AS when they didn’t want the truth told."
Mr Nemeth, I understand now, although I don't think YOU do; you were asked to leave the conference room because you were there without an invitation and therefore not entitled to the food being served at the reception. This was for Kim Stagliano and those persons who actually purchased her book,(hence the book signing). Did YOU buy a book? If not, why bother with a book signing at all, unless you intended to cause disruption. Your tee shirt and placard were disrespectful and inappropriate.
Hotels are NOT public places. I assume the hotel personnel asked you to leave the hall, because you were simply not entitled to be there. You were not purchasing accommodation, drinks or meals. Ditto the car park where your stance, with or without a placard, would have contravened the existing safety laws.
I assume no one bothered you on the sidewalk. If you want to demonstrate in order to make a point then I suggest that in future you stick to sidewalks.
Robin; You should have the right to be at a NIH meeting though - it is a federal agenecy and it is time that all federal agency remembers what they are, their real job, and you they are accountable too or suppose to be accountable too.
Take the view of what you learned in school and compare reality - accept reality and that is what we call Russia. I think they have a fatalistic view of life. Something that I do not want for America.
Profits off of mis fortune?
Here in America it is allowed, and Kim is misfortuned enough to have three in her family that have autism.
So the sidewalk if you have the passion is were you can stand in that case.
You have my blessings if you stand on the side walk and are slamming Autism Speaks - there was an organization that did nothing for me or anyone else except take tons of money out of our community and I saw nothing spent constructively at all.
The food was there the whole time I was there and nobody told me to leave until Kim showed up. In fact, most people were quite nice and didn't mind a bit that I hadn't paid for the conference.
Was I there just to cause a disturbance? I was there to inform people of things I felt it was in their interest to know. Too bad if Kim was disturbed. Was I disrespectful? Probably. I don't have any respect for the woman.
Btw when I had my sign taken in Tower City Center, I was walking from the public train station to public square. I was asking the police officer where the public right of way to walk from train to square was, if I was on private property. There has to be one. He wouldn't or couldn't answer but could only take my sign.
So where did the book signing occur? I'm not a lawyer. I know there are buildings and meetings funded with taxpayer money that I'm not allowed free access to.
Jake wrote "It all happened on December 2, 2011 – my 23rd birthday – when I attended the “Research Ethics Book Group Lunch and Book Signing.” Seth's book signing.
So where was this book signing?
So strange.
Your prompt response is appreciated.
Robin,
You have kind of hijacked this post, and this is not really about you or your problems with Kim Stagliano.
Kim is not in a public official, or appointed to the IOM, or speaking at NIH events or even speaking at University lectures. She has not lied about you or slandered you. She has not done anything that will sabotage your career. Not comparable to what has been done to Jake Crosby.
You wanted to boycott Walgreens for their use of Hg flu shots. Totally your prerogative. (Which I support, as you know) Kim Stagliano didn't support that, and that is her prerogative. She didn't let you use her blog comments to promote your idea, because she liked that they hire adults with autism and other disabilities. Again.. her blog, she decides who can comment and who can't, so she is still playing in bounds.
What you have with Kim is a legitimate difference of opinion. She has not lied for violated your rights. And frankly, at this point, I don't understand why you care what she does in this regard. If you don't respect her, then well... you can say that in the appropriate venue. And you yourself have said here that your behavior in doing this may have crossed a line.
I am also not sure what you want to get out of this attack on Kim or AoA. I am more puzzled by what you want out of me, as you have been commenting on my blog for more than a year about how much you don't like Kim's decisions. I am not Kim, I don't set AoA comments.
Children are not dying or being disabled because Kim Stagliano did not want to join you in a boycott of Walgreens. Children are dying and being disabled because people like Offit and Mnookins are flat out lying and now slandering people to keep the truth about vaccine damage from coming to light.
I think that your energies could be much more fruitful in other battles, because, with all due respect to Kim Stagliano, in the scheme of things, who cares what she thinks. She has her battles and you have yours.
Frankly, I would rather have seen you using all this time and energy in the past year trying to convince people to stop shopping at Walgreens and coordinating a letter writing campaign or something.
Get to the roots of the problem. Walgreens, Offit and Mnookin lying and promoting the poisoning people is the root of the problem. Kim's opinion of Walgreens is not.
You wrote this: "My first reaction upon being censored by Kim a year and a half ago was rage, at the betrayal." Was this really your reaction to just not being able to comment on a blog? Might that not be a little over the top? I have one autism blogger who has blogged about me for years, totally bashes me and calls me names, and has outright told me that I was not allowed to comment on his blog! Even when the whole post was about me! And you know what... I don't care!
Because either my work can stand on its own or it can't.
Robin, figure out what your work is, and do it. If it is challenging Walgreens, then great! If it is challenging Kim, then well... fine, but I think that you are wasting time and energy. She is not corrupt, she is not lying about you and she has not violated your rights.
You don't have a right to post on another person's blog with your their permission. AoA is completely open about the fact that they strictly moderate comments, so no one is under the impression that what is posted is what is submitted.
By ‘hijacked’ I presume you mean that I’ve taken it someplace it wasn’t meant to go. You were talking about someone forcibly removed from a book signing (where?) and so was I. I was bringing up the hypocrisy inherent in the situation. I don’t understand why you don’t want to go there. Your blog tho - it’s ultimately in your hands where these conversations go.
I didn’t say my career has been sabotaged, or that Kim lied about me or slandered me as Ms. Goldberg of AS has. I am claiming however that her behavior is deceptive and corrupt. Children ARE being disabled from the levels of mercury in the flu shots that Walgreens is administering. If you’re concerned about the autism that’s occurred due to mercury in the childhood vaccines, why no concern due to mercury in the flu shots? Kim’s attempt to cover up this information has possibly led to more children being harmed. I can’t say how many more, but the only way to say that NONE could have been affected would be to argue that no one reads the comments on AoA or thinks twice about them. Children are dying and being disabled because people are hiding the truth. They’re hiding the truth because they’re profiting from hiding the truth. Kim is one of those people.
Why do I care? I could ask the same about you - why should you care about Seth or Jake? I’m not going to spend time trying to untangle the web of financial ties that the vaccine program has become. Perhaps if I were a paid journalist, like Jake. (or is he an epidemiology student, or both?) Our tax money funds this genocide, we both understand that. From legislation that gives the industry immunity to the regulatory agencies that look the other way, we all pay. But there are people involved who are just as complicit whose profits can’t be traced so clearly - media, candidates who accept lobbying money from pharma, and ‘support’ organizations whose leaders blatantly lie or tell partial truths.
A letter writing campaign?? If only I had a dime for every letter I’ve written in the last eight years. As for convincing people to stop shopping at Walgreens, that was the whole point of the sign and megaphone I carried at the Autism Speaks walkathon a year ago. What I would rather see is a stop to the lies and rationalizations.
It’s not Kim’s opinion of Walgreens and AS, in of itself, that’s a problem but rather her opinion in combination with the profits and the censorship. IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT OFFIT, GERBERDING, AND ALL OF THE REST OF THEM HAVE BEEN DOING. If you can convince yourself that it doesn’t matter simply because the money’s been routed in so many different directions, then God help you. There’s none so blind, as they say…
I might have considered my reaction over the top if it hadn’t happened after six years of censorship. Censorship on internet blogs, on political chat rooms, and public sidewalks.
Kim’s work isn’t standing on it’s own. It’s standing on profits from sponsors who sell their products to the parents of the vaccine injured. People who she is deceiving when she makes the decision to omit information from her site.
So you think I’m wasting my time ; what’s one more person? The nicest thing anyone’s said to me about what I’ve been doing with this vaccine injury stuff in the last eight years is “you’re right but you’re beating your head against a brick wall.”
You feel that her deceit is not corrupt because:
1. The primary target of the deceit isn’t a student/journalist/professional.
2. The person responsible for the deceit isn’t employed by pharma or the public health agencies.
3. AoA acknowledges that they moderate the site.
I have to say I don’t see how it follows.
I also don’t understand what line I’ve either crossed, or said I’ve crossed. The one where we say nothing if we’ve nothing nice to say? I’ve found little use for that one in the last eight years. I’m sure you’ve seen it’s been the case with many in both the pro and anti vaccine camp.
Hold the phone...
Robin... you are now going over board and putting words in my mouth.
I am concerned with mercury in vaccines, clearly you would understand that if you read the blog, and thus my SUPPORT of you taking on Walgreens.
And how in the WORLD can you say Kim is trying to cover up mercury?! She publishes AGE OF AUTISM for cripes sake!
You know... Age of Autism that is THE source for information on mercury damage? Whose editors wrote a book by the same name about the history of mercury damage going back to the Roman Empire?
"They’re hiding the truth because they’re profiting from hiding the truth. Kim is one of those people." Robin... what the hell are you talking about?!
AoA EXPOSES mercury damage! It does not cover up mercury damage. And where in the world are you getting that they are profiting from covering up mercury damage? Look at who their sponsors are. Which of them is interested in covering up mercury damage? SafeMinds? Whose acronym stands for Sensible Action For Ending Mercury Induced Neurological Damage?
I think that you have gone way past reason here Robin. You are not making sense.
And Jake is a student and an unpaid writer.
If you think that she is deceitful, then you have not made your case to me. And frankly, you are doing more to hurt your reputation by making these odd claims that the single most active outlet on mercury toxicity is somehow trying to cover up mercury damage.
And I have not told you not to talk. On the contrary, I have said you can say whatever you feel you need to. I am merely trying to encourage you in a direction that might actually bear more fruit in preventing more mercury damage.
They taught me in interpersonal communication class in college and in the various counseling sessions I’ve been in ad nauseum that it’s good to rephrase the other person. Helps lead to understanding. Ha. Well, misinterpretations do occur. You, after all, put the words ‘crossed a line’ into my mouth. But I’m sorry if there’s been some misunderstanding. I’m glad you support me on Walgreens flu shots. You must just not believe me then when I tell you that Kim censored my words regarding them, and for no reason that I can understand or that she was willing to explain to me except that she wanted to get the legislation that was important to her passed, and because she didn’t want to embarrass her friend at Autism Speaks. If you’re not aware of the cognitive dissonance here, I am.
Btw, I got a call yesterday from Lacy, of PRIM&R. No NIH money was used to fund the conference. According to their site, it was funded by Boston University (a private school), PRIM&R, and the American Association of Medical Colleges. It’s probably pretty much their call who they’d like at their conference book signings, and who they’d like thrown out. Same as it is Kim’s.
Thanks for letting me have my say. I’m noticing a lot of name calling—a sure sign that that’s about to end. But it’s ok because now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to try my best, once again, to be done with ya all and this whole issue of vaccine injury.
Time to do as the typical do, and concentrate only on my own family.
Robin, I was wondering if you could clarify the Death Threats statement. Is there more information on that, or is there an ongoing investigation (which would preclude further information from you).
The only reason I ask is because I, too, have been stalked mercilessly by one particular "pro-vaccine" advocate. I guess you could say I was wanting to trade war stories.
Another reason is that the "pro-vaccine" advocates always comment about how scary and cult-like vaccine safety advocates are. They go on endlessly about how they make death threats, threaten livelihoods, etc. What they don't say, though, is that they do the exact same thing.
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